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I propose a new paradigm on ISK selling...

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 11:50:00 - [1] I propose that CCP should sell ISK and ingame items for RL cash Why? We all know that the EULA prevents the sale of ISK for RL cash. This clause attempts to prevent others (Ebayers)gaining money from CCP's intelectual property. It was generally accepted that the reverse was also true. That CCP frowned upon purchase of ISK for RL cash. With CCP's blessing on the sale of ETC's (game time cards) it is clear that as long as CCP get their cut then they are satisfied. The current situation Theres obviously demand. No matter how many petitions are filed and macroers banned, they still find a way. That means it has to be profitable and worth the hassle. Thats RL money that could be swelling CCP's coffers. In fact quite the opposite happens atm, its placing strain on their resources. Petitions have to be invetigated, mineral prices crash so newbs have to work harder to earn ISK and so on. Lets stop tiptoeing around this and just accept that the world has changed. People spend money to be better at their hobbies all the time. I have a snazzy mountain bike, not a Tesco special. My squash racquet wouldnt be out of place on the space shuttle. Whats wrong with fluttering a bit of moolah on a game? Proposal in a bit more detail - A bit of work was done in the excellent post by CmdrRat to establish that the current baseline ISK/RL$ is 1USD=7.3mill ISK - CCP should open up a web shop and sell items based on this exchange rate. + 1 unit of tier 2 bs = $13.70 + 1 unit of tier 1 bs = $9.60 + 1 unit of covetor = $3.40 + 50 mill ISK = $6.80 - Items purchased with RL cash should be supplied by the market so that there is demand for producers, this prevents their efforts being undermined (haha pun!) Advantages of this system - It puts the money in CCP's pocket and not the macroers. They can improve the game with this money. - Done properly, with a sliding "cost of ISK" - it will kill macroers. Put simply, CCP can do this more cheaply. - This is a game. Demand for ISK has proven that the "golden ratio" is wrong atm. Hell, gimme a crow for $2 and I can pvp for a few hours instead of renting a dvd. So, there it is. Valid proposal or downtime delusions? cough Available for work as a consultant for this idea, will accept cash or shiny ingame toys as pay.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 11:58:00 - [2] Originally by: Khatred Originally by: Discorporation The funny thing about selling isks for GTC's is that the isks in question already exist. Your 'solution' would result in CCP creating isks and feeding inflation. Which is absurd. That's point #1 Point #2. Player X buys "n" amount of isk from CCP and use that amount to buy a fully officer fitted Rattlesnake. Rattlesnake goes poof to unknown bug wich GM's don't aknowledge. Here comes sueing CCP. EVE has no bugs!!!! Time = RL cash. People could sue anyway, its not a hard connection to make.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 12:17:00 - [3] Originally by: Rovol Very very very very bad idea imho...... I firmly believe that isk should only be obtainable through in game activity. I have no respect whatsoever for those that buy in game items with RL cash. You say that. But why is it wrong? I've yet to see it articulated.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 12:29:00 - [4] Originally by: Gonada take yer high falution , item buying with cash ideas and get the hell off this game and go play entropia. see how much fun that game is, then youll see why its bad idea. So am I correct in saying you are against this idea? Care to say why?
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 12:33:00 - [5] Originally by: madaluap so when i pop 2 ishtars i have killed over 30 dollars in RL cash LOL, that makes me scared of even flying my own bs Dont pop em nub. Ransom them for $5
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 12:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Maderda Kuhal I have a much better, fun idea. It's obvious who the isk farmers are. They don't try to hide. Groups mining in a belt, most having the same ship, all belong to npc corps, all about the same birth date. So, if CCP would just let us declare against people in npc corps the problem would be solved. Blow them up, they get new stuff, blow them up they get new stuff. It would be like shooting npc rats. Please keep to the topic and keep stupid (yes stupid) ideas out of here. Your idea is a newbie griefers wet dream.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 12:48:00 - [7] Originally by: Tiny Carlos Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: Maderda Kuhal I have a much better, fun idea. It's obvious who the isk farmers are. They don't try to hide. Groups mining in a belt, most having the same ship, all belong to npc corps, all about the same birth date. So, if CCP would just let us declare against people in npc corps the problem would be solved. Blow them up, they get new stuff, blow them up they get new stuff. It would be like shooting npc rats. Please keep to the topic and keep stupid (yes stupid) ideas out of here. Your idea is a newbie griefers wet dream. I don't think you should be so quick to call other people ideas stupid, not with this thread to your name. I'm sorry, you contributed what? Why is it stupid? I named valid benefits. 1) more profit for CCP 2) More fun for players 3) Macroers a thing of the past. Name me the downsides please?
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 13:33:00 - [8] Originally by: Roshan longshot What would be the purpose of this game? If I am allowed to take my savings and buy everything I wanted from CCP? Need an outpost...sure only cost 30-50 bucks, lets get a dread...30 more lets get one of every BPO tech II included. say 300 bucks lets get one of every ship....oh 10000 bucks hummm I still have alot left over... There goes the player market...there goes the reason lots of people play...no reason to mine...no reason to build...only thing left is pvp. Might just as well shut the game off. Cause your still not seeing where 75% of the players are. EMPIRE doing anything but PVP Combat. You have thrown out some real wing dingers. This is the worst. But is it really? The people that post here are the ones that care about the game (generally) The silent majority are the ones purchasing from E-bay. I'd stake money on there being 1000+ macroers in-game. Go to Maspah. Theres 14 of them in one belt. Thats just one example. People are falling over themselves to sell ETC's for ISK now. Yet more people that would agree with this practice. Stop being so naive as to delude yourself there is no demand. The signs are all around you but you just refuse to see. CCP have proved themselves incapable of dealing with macroers. I'm just suggesting the practice of ISK for cash be legitimized.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 13:51:00 - [9] C'mon folks, stop being so Naive. On the first 2 pages of the sell orders forums people have put up 20 billion ISK worth of GTC's for sale. Most have been sold. Roughly thats $2,800 to $3,800 somebody has shelled out to make ISK. Now if your stance is "If this happens to EVE then I'm quitting" then I suggest you cancel your subscription. It's already happening all around you folks.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 13:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Roshan longshot It has taken me almost a year to raise from -4.8 to 2.0. So I know I would not do that to any of my characters. edit: I did not say there was'nt a demand. I said your thread is a wing dinger of a bad idea. That character is back up by 0.2 from yesterday. Just because you lack the skills isnt my problem. I've had that character from day 1. It's 9 months old and can use t2 large rails. It took about a month of using it as a gank ship on missions to raise the sec. You insinuation that its ebayed shows how blinkered and narrow minded you are. People that do things that are beyond your ability are clearly cheating arent they?
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 13:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Maderda Kuhal I can see is because you are in a position to profit greatly. Maybe YOU are one of THEM? Yup, you got me there. Your wit and cunning has left me with no option but to confess Curses, I've been foiled by a genius
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 14:02:00 - [12] Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight This will kill eve, all it will mean is that rich players do what ever they want, eve should be about eve not who can make the most cash in rl. If you do this the next step will be to sell isk for rl cash, and once that happens eve will be floded with macro miners, This will be the death nail in eves cofin. A rich idiot with a battleship will be a rich idiot with a dead battleship after an hour or two. CCP get $, He gets his BS, I get to kill it and a manufacturer gets to sell it. It all sounds so reasonable.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 14:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Deja Thoris It all sounds so reasonable. Except for that part where CCP legitimizes putting a dollar value on something that is nothing. They are called "intangibles" Some are worth billions. Have a coke and think about it
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 19:30:00 - [14] Originally by: Galk Given up hey Deja. I knew you would come to the darkside sooner or later, it's realy not that hard to cut through it if you have half a braincell. People are being taken for mugs, message understood comrade, welcome to the underground Meh, It just made me giggle to see so much apathy over the selling of timecards for ISK. CCP's implementing this would just be full acceptance of what is already happening . Instead, people just sell twenty billion ISK on the forums in plain sight in the past couple of days and everybody deludes theselves its hunkydory. So far I've been accused of ebaying (how could I ruin a characters sec if I didn't buy it?) and of macroing (err, yeah ok) A clever person on the first page nailed it. It's just a bit of reverse psychology left over from my dismay at ETC's being sold. I provoked some thought and got views aired, took a little abuse, meh One thing is for sure. In debating "for" something that I'm against, I can actually see it's not such a bad proposal. (I'm still against it tho) Warning this post contains excessive smiley abuse
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.22 19:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Rangoon It would be better for CCP top host the auction and take a commisions and act as escrow rather then CCP actually sell the stuff. For CCP to sell ISK, well that just wouldn't be right. They could and would keep the market manipulated into there favor or increased $$. Then of course leads to corruption of CSR's, pumping money to alts and selling the isk themselves, or giving rare BPO and such. Thats a viable option too. It would be true EVE-Bay
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.23 13:16:00 - [16] Originally by: The GoldenRatio Deja, you get my point? Nope. Poorly worded, badly thought out an quite irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.23 20:13:00 - [17] Originally by: The GoldenRatio ... It's not about who gets the advantage (this is what I think you are implying). Whether its through time or RL bank balance. It's about facing a few realities. 1) People dont want the grind. Demand proves this. They'd happily spend $2.99 and buy a crow and go and get blown up as their nights entertainment. 2) I know, and I hope that you know too - ISK is NOT a win button. I will *****some nub in a purchased battleship 99.9/100 So there, I'm not arguing for fairness or cuddly equality, just reality.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.24 16:42:00 - [18] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Deja Thoris It was generally accepted that the reverse was also true. That CCP frowned upon [b]purchase of ISK for RL cash. With CCP's blessing on the sale of ETC's (game time cards) it is clear that as long as CCP get their cut then they are satisfied. Deja, I thought I had been clear on this. Let me go through it again. We allowed the trade of ISK for Game Time as an extension of the policy allowing the trade of ISK for game related services like TS server rental, forum signatures, etc. When we discussed allowing the trade of ISK for Game Time, the thought that we were inadvertently allowing the 'sale of ISK for RL cash' didn't occur to us. The decision to allow the trade was not profit driven. When Sony came out with their microcharge servers (sale of game items for RL cash), the internal CCP discussion lasted about 2 minutes. The discussion about Second Life's business model lasted longer, but the results of the discussions were the same. We do not have, nor do we want to have, the ability to clone Tranquility and start up a microcharge server. We've discussed changing the police on allowing the trade of ISK for Game Time a number of times. For the time being, the policy is going to stay as it is. Just like the macro miner/ISK farmer issue, we don't have the manpower or resources to police a policy disallowing trades of this nature. We will re-open discussion on this issue again. In a nutshell, we tried to be nice and do something for the benefit of the players. Some players turned this around to where it backfired on us. Kieron, I appreciate the response. I am for the principle of ETC's for ISK. Like you said, theres always some that abuse it. It's a pity but it's the way of the world. I am against an EVE-bay type thing that I proposed, I just did it to spark some debate (although I argued so hard for it I started convincing myself) Anyway, thanks for the honest and informative response.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.27 21:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Maya Rkell And the damage done when a portion of the playerbase, who for whatever reason currently buy those GTC using ISK quit when they can no longer pay for the game? No solution ever works for 100% of the playerbase. Choose the lesser evil.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.30 19:25:00 - [20] Originally by: Jastra And having said all that I notice someone selling Timecards just won an auction for a t2 BPO, oh well. That is exactly what started me on my crusade
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.30 20:22:00 - [21] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Jastra And having said all that I notice someone selling Timecards just won an auction for a t2 BPO, oh well. Name please. I have alot of gank-setup frigs left over from a recent war. alty mcalt.... check the hawk bpo in the sales section.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.02.15 13:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Iberi Most stupid topic ever? The topic to provoke discussion and poke CCP for the perceived double standards on the ETC issues. The thread was created when ETC's etc were topical and there were a lot of strong feelings around. Take that into account. Now look back at your post. Who looks stupid?
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.04.18 20:13:00 - [23] Originally by: Nairi In closing, I'm not impressed with the premise of this thread. Just because nobody can come up with flaws in your plan Deja, doesn't mean there are none. If you can't be responsible enough to research the downsides to your proposal and make them public, you don't deserve to make it in the first place. If you bothered to read the thread (normally a good idea since it stops you looking like a complete arse when you jump to conclusions) you will understand why I wrote what I did. I am adamantly against ISK sales and GTC sales, I wrote what I did to provoke debate.

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